TOPIC:

A few thoughts:

- Memory serves, but is unreliable. Googling for pictures of this pillar produces zero columns and far too many Nigel Farages.

- The "Gallery" section of www.thebellinnbath.co.uk doesn't open from Turkey. Turkey does ban a lot of websites, but I'd be surprised if The Bell's is one of them.

- If the sole benefit is improved sight-lines for x people, then the costs should be in proportion to that. As well as the (hard to price) concerns about loss of familiar areas and the flow of the space, this sounds like a fairly significant building project...

- The pub is listed as a "Hotel" for some reason by Historic England: www.historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1395574

- That Historic England web address looks like Historicen Gland to me.

The Bell was listed in the phone book and elsewhere - until fairly recently - as 'The Bell Hotel', dating from its ancient origins as a coaching inn. I don't know when the last time it took in travellers, but I do know that people occasionally would call up the bar phone a few years ago and try to book a room for the night. Those were the days when you could sleep in the same bed with the landlord if there were no other rooms available. These days he would have to pay you.

[1] Well we're having a discussion and people are expressing their views
[2] Before everyone else thinks it'a all "they're turning the place into a music venue the bastards" ill have to point out that the idea didn't originate with me
[3] The Gallery page desn't seem to open for me either. Coincidentally I was only talking to Garry about the website last night. There have been hitches in the upgrading which cannot be attributed to him. It'll happen eventually and that menu item will either contain something or be gone.

Front and back photos of the 'pillar' for Spine.

It isn't really a pillar - it is two holes knocked through a 1690-1700 wall, that is why it should be left in place, to my mind.

I have spoken to some serious musicians, and they say that the crowd up against the stage actually enhances everyone's experience. Think black holes, think The Cavern. Don't think about anyone's frustration at standing behind it - take the long view.

It really should not be removed. Say what you think now or forever hold your peace.

What will you do with the mixing desk when it is gone, and where will you put all those posters?

Thank you Bushy, that was very thoughtful of you. You're added to the list of people I owe pints. But you've also made me feel obliged to expand on my thoughts on this. Meanderings follow:

In a city of many fine columns, it's easy to understand why this one gets little love. It's pretty dumpy, isn't it? Like a stack of 4x4 Lego blocks. And it restricts space, light and views in a central area. Still, as you point out, it's doing good work by carrying posters and tech, as well as weight. And it's been doing so for 300 years.

For the record, I love The Bell as a place for live music. I am also inclined to think the “keep it the same” emphasis of the buy-out could prove to be a weight around our necks. Furthermore, I've always disliked the traffic jam that can form in the bar-stage-column triangle on busy nights.

So you might think I'd support the removal of the pillar. But actually, I'm inclined to keep it, mainly for reasons you might call "political". I don't think the benefits justify the cost and drama of a demolition, and I strongly suspect the Board will decide the same.

There seem to be three options:

Trim It: The most obvious idea is shaving the column down, or installing a slender replacement.

I think Bushy's right: this would be silly if the option exists to remove it entirely.

Remove It: You could argue that the management that knocked through that wall (way back when?) would have removed it completely if they could have. We can, so let's finish their job. Doing so would extend the audience area all the way to the (conveniently raised) back, creating a wonderful new space to watch bands and simultaneously opening up the heavily trafficked crossroads of the pub. I can see why Steve wants it done.

But there would be costs. Put the money aside for a moment. I am only guessing, but I think the changes that it would bring to the back area would be unpopular with many who rightly like to have some dark and private spots. The work would be disruptive. It would also signal a shift in the boozer-venue balance that may very well upset some. Others may argue we have a responsibility to preserve The Bell as is (as Heather did at the start of this thread). And yet more people would dislike the idea of demolishing a very old thing (see Bushy's posts).

Leave It: It's part of the fabric of a historic building, and while it's not ideal, it does no one any great harm. We get bands and we get audiences. They have fun. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Which brings me back to the money. I have no idea what the work might cost, but it won't be small and I bet there are things that actually are broke and do need fixing. Why would the Board opt for a costly and potentially divisive project, when there are surely other tasks that everyone can agree on?

Steve

Sorry to be boring (again!) but I think that it is quite important to know what it is that is being discussed prior to potential demolition, no matter what your feelings are about it.

This photo is of the back wall of the original pub, which - unless my internal mapping-system is completely haywire - is what that 'pillar' is holding up. Note the late 17th century casement windows set into the rubble-work. There is an identical window at the same level, behind the new sign on the gable-end which has also been filled-in. You can also see a door-opening beneath that sign which has been blocked with brick, and in the kitchen behind it there is an alcove which formed the entrance. This door must have been serviced by an external staircase, as I don't think that there was ever any extensions going up that high. You can see such a staircase in the much older George Inn at Norton St Philip.

This bit of the old wall is in dire need of conservation, because the Victorian coal-smoke which has blackened it is turning acidic, and the effects of this can be seen where the joints of the rubble are decaying and showing up as whitish.

There are two ways of looking at this - that things survive much longer if they are totally ignored (such as the Saxon Church in Bradford on Avon, which was also surrounded with later extensions), or that giving them the right sort of attention also helps to preserve them. This bit of wall needs water-cleaning and re-pointing, but I am sure that there are more important things to do and that a year or two more of being left as it is won't do too much harm.

Having said all that, the Bell is world-renowned for its live music, so it really is a question of priorities and compromise.