TOPIC:

The Management have succumbed to the Board's (very quiet) demands that CCTV cameras be installed in The Bell as a condition of obtaining a late licence, and so this will be a done deal in perpetuity unless the licence is not granted for some reason.

Come on now, do you really want the last remaining peacefully blind pub in Bath to be installed with CCTV for the police's sake and lose its 300 year reputation as a friendly, family pub? Do you want to be there after midnight in any case? Do the residents want the extra noise? Do the Members want the extra income for the sake of destroying the very ethos of the pub that they fought for and bought to save?

Please go to The Bell and sign the above petition. The application is already in. No time to lose. To hell with the Board.

As regards CCTV cameras: the Board has demanded nothing, the Management has not succumbed to anything, and no deal involving mortal men and IT hardware is ever in perpetuity.
I'll say a bit more tomorrow. At this time of night the wi-fi here in Hell is a bit iffy. Something to do with the heat probably.

I am sorry John, but I no longer believe what you say as mitigation to all the stuff which has been put before you in the recent past.

If I hear rumours about all this about a month before anything occurs and you do not, then who is the better informed? I supported all you lot when there were unreasonable demands for transparency from unreasonable people, but right now I am beginning to come round to their way of thinking, simply because of the evidence.

I have spoken to the General Manager tonight, and he has confirmed that he has included the installation of CCTV cameras in the interior as part of the application for a late licence. Were you unaware of this? If so, do you have any communication with your fellow Board members?

You have muttered something about looking into how much 'leeway' there could be in Avon and Somerset's demands for CCTV, but this was as far as it went. Do you really know what is being decided upon as far as these policies go, and if not, are these decisions being made behind your back? I thought you were the Secretary?

There is a notice of planning in a window of the pub tonight - as legally required - mentioning the Bell's application for an extension of the licence and asking for any objections to be made before a certain date. Were you aware of this application, and are you aware of the conditions under which it will be granted?

For all non-members, here's two snippets from the restricted Members section of the Forum with regard to this topic:

Board Secretary:

"As regards CCTV, the situation is fairly straightforward. When B&NES considers our application for a late licence they will take into account recommendations made to them by the police. (And by lots of other organisations and individuals as well, but they're not relevant to this discussion). The police will recommend to the Licensing Sub-Committee - because they always do - that the granting of a late licence is made conditional upon our installing a modest amount of CCTV. Theoretically the Licensing Sub-Committee could ignore the police recommendation, but we know that they won't - because they never do - and that nothing we can do or say will change their minds.
Those are the facts of licensing life in Bath, and wishing it was otherwise won't make it so. If we want a late licence, which we do, we have to work with the facts."

One response (mine):


"The General Manager told us last night that he had preliminary discussions with the licensing officer, and he said that the officer was adamant that CCTV cameras would be insisted upon for a late licence to be granted. The General Manager simply took his word for it and included the installation of cameras in with the proposal, just to try and make sure that it would be granted.

As far as I understand it, once the licence has been granted under these conditions, it would be next to impossible to reverse the decision to install cameras and still retain the licence. It just wouldn't happen, though you could spend another £300 in a vain attempt to make it happen. Try asking Dracula to leave the premises once you have invited him in.

What should have happened (aside from a courteous discussion with the bar staff and regulars who actually use the pub) is that the licence should have been applied for WITHOUT CCTV, then see what happened. If you really have your hearts set on a late licence, then the inclusion of CCTV to obtain one should have been the last resort, not the first.

The disrespect and rudeness by the Board shown to the hundreds of people who either own or drink in the pub is actually shocking, and I can only think that the Board decided to push this one through quietly because they anticipated a pretty much universal objection to the installation of cameras.

The inept way that this contentious issue has been handled by the Bell's Elders means that there will now either be CCTV in the pub, or no late licence. That is the only choice left now that the application has been put in as far as I can see."

I think it is worth saying that everyone wants to see the Bell flourish as a live music venue, but it is also worth pointing out that the people who turn up for music are very different to the people like me who rush home in time to catch The Archers. I am sure that the former make more money for the pub, and that cannot be anything but good.

If the Bell gets a late licence, I understand that this will not be used every night to begin with, but blanket coverage is useful so that extensions don't have to be applied for when the quota has been hit for the year. The cameras will not be turned off once they are turned on, though.

On the nights when there is no music and the licence is used, then we will get a lot more visitors who want to carry on drinking for an extra couple of hours or so, and although they will make more money for the place, the cameras may well be useful due to the change in atmosphere caused by the late-night 'strangers' turning up.

All I am saying is that these issues should have been discussed with at least the bar staff who will have to hang around until the early hours on these nights, rather than quietly bringing about 2 self-fulfilling prophecies in one go.

You really need to decide - if you haven't already - how far down the road you want to go to in changing the place quite drastically. So far it potentially involves the demolition of a large bit of wall and the installation of CCTV. What next?

Also regarding the staff. As I understand it if the pub is quiet at 11pm then the license won't be used and it will shut at the normal time.

But the staff have been put on the rota until 1am (2am by the time they clear up). will they just be told at midnight 'right, that's it, off you go?'

Zero hour contracts next?